Twin Supertalls Revealed as Part of Garden City, Possible Relocation of Madison Square Garden, in Midtown Manhattan

A preliminary rendering for the proposed and relocated Madison Square Garden complex, designed by Vishaan Chakrabarti's Practice for Architecture and Urbanism (PAU).

Community Board Five’s Land Use, Housing & Zoning Committee voted in a meeting on Wednesday to advance plans for a massive undertaking in Midtown involving the conversion of Madison Square Garden into a new concourse for Penn Station, and the creation of a new home for the sports facility between two supertall skyscrapers near Herald Square. Initially proposed in 2016 by Vishaan Chakrabarti, founder of Practice for Architecture and Urbanism (PAU), new renderings give visual context to the plan, to which the city council agreed with the consideration of The Madison Square Garden Company’s acquisition of a shorter extension of its current lease.

PAU’s initiatives previously included the removal of the arena interiors, expansion of the transportation concourse floors, addition of passive heating and cooling, improvements to the northern and western entrances to the facility, and the addition of new platforms and tracks in conjunction with the proposed $13 billion Gateway Program. The cylindrical shape of the building would be preserved, but several levels of floors would be removed and the exterior would be re-clad in a new double-skin glass curtain wall, enabling natural light to flood the open interior and its 153-foot-high span from the ceiling to the platforms.

Rendering by Vishaan Chakrabarti’s Practice for Architecture and Urbanism (PAU).

Rendering by Vishaan Chakrabarti’s Practice for Architecture and Urbanism (PAU).

Rendering by Vishaan Chakrabarti’s Practice for Architecture and Urbanism (PAU).

Madison Square Garden would move to an eight-acre site consisting of two full-block parcels bound by Sixth Avenue to the east, West 32nd Street to the south, Seventh Avenue to the west, and West 34th Street to the north. Straddling the new arena is a pair of supertall skyscrapers and two shorter towers, anchoring all four corners of a raised podium above street level.

The rendering below gives an impression of the design and scale of the buildings and their impact on the Manhattan skyline. Whether or not these are close to Vishaan’s intended design is unclear, but they would easily eclipse the height of the Empire State Building and Kohn Pedersen Fox’s 30 Hudson Yards, becoming a focal point of lower Midtown, and anchoring the neighborhood with a Rockefeller Center-esque presence.

The diagram below shows almost 700,000 square feet of underutilized zoning that currently exists on the proposed plot. The proposed rezoning could amount to the following: a little over 2,000,000 square feet of office space; nearly 537,000 square feet of retail space; 895,000 square feet of hotel space; around 353,000 square feet of secondary commercial space; and nearly 64,000 square feet of storage space. The maximum area can total around 4,560,000 square feet with an floor area ratio of 14.49.

Diagram by Vishaan Chakrabarti’s Practice for Architecture and Urbanism (PAU).

Other smaller properties are also part of the initiative to redevelop the Penn Station vicinity. 34th Street would be flanked by both Macy’s and the new entrance to Madison Square Garden, with separate entrances to offices, retail, residences, and a hotel.

Diagram by Vishaan Chakrabarti’s Practice for Architecture and Urbanism (PAU).

Diagram by Vishaan Chakrabarti’s Practice for Architecture and Urbanism (PAU).

Rendering by Vishaan Chakrabarti’s Practice for Architecture and Urbanism (PAU).

Rendering by Vishaan Chakrabarti’s Practice for Architecture and Urbanism (PAU).

Rendering by Vishaan Chakrabarti’s Practice for Architecture and Urbanism (PAU).

Section cut rendering by Vishaan Chakrabarti’s Practice for Architecture and Urbanism (PAU).

A preliminary rendering for the proposed and relocated Madison Square Garden complex, designed by PAU is included below.

A preliminary rendering for the proposed and relocated Madison Square Garden complex, designed by Vishaan Chakrabarti’s Practice for Architecture and Urbanism (PAU).

Diagram by Vishaan Chakrabarti’s Practice for Architecture and Urbanism (PAU).

Mr. Chakrabarti formally estimated that the new makeover of the space could generate $3 billion in revenue to pay for the audacious Penn Station undertaking.

No word on has been given on a possible timeline for the project.

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124 Comments on "Twin Supertalls Revealed as Part of Garden City, Possible Relocation of Madison Square Garden, in Midtown Manhattan"

    • We’re in the middle of a Pandemic, where are you finding tenants for these towers?.. If you haven’t noticed most of the current office buildings are at less than 60% occupied and companies are bailing out on Manhattan & the rest of the city.
      This city has become a disaster once again, thanks to the incompetent buffoon in city hall. It’s going to be a LONG time before this city rebounds from this mess.

      • I could not agree more with you. DiBlasio is gone in a year, but with the city’s changing demographics, I fully expect the next mayor to be of equivalent political stripe. In other words, 8 more years of the same anti business, anti policing policies. Why would any business want to stay or move here?

        • Work From Home isn’t going away by 2023 or whenever. Highly paid suburban employees in particular have taken to WFH in a huge way.

      • Matthew Phillips | January 10, 2021 at 1:55 am | Reply

        Don’t be ridiculous, pessimism is so narrow-minded. You vastly underestimate the vigor and longterm desirability of NYC, which is clearly a top 5 (I’d say #1) global city. All of those buildings and more will be filled up in no time. You would win money all day long betting on the future prosperity of New York, which is exactly what these developers are thinking. Also, any plan that includes upgrading Penn Station gets a thumbs up in my book.

  1. The megaproject is hard to digest at the time when New York City has turned into a ghost town during the pandemic and most office towers remain empty.

    • Sure there are no tourists and much fewer commuters, but New York is most definitely not a ghost town. Do you even live here?

    • Have faith young grasshopper.

      • Put all the homeless in the new towers.
        And let the rioters ,BLM protestors and antifa radicals have space in the new towers also.. they could be ready for the next destruction of the city…they could be right in midtown ready rob,burn and loot for the next protest.

    • Daniel Louzonis | January 8, 2021 at 10:29 am | Reply

      I agree. This is comical, surreal. Empty buildings everywhere already. The Freedom Tower falling close to 50% occupancy for crying out loud. Goldman Sachs about to leave (and create a domino effect throughout Wall St)…

      Maybe in the new towers they can manufacture….buggy whips!

      • I love this proposal. Hope it happens. Remember, this would be for the next economic cycle, not the current one.

        • Return to the city to do what?
          Everyone I know left NY, moved to tri states, have no desire to take public transportation ever again, and will not attend shows sitting next to COVID.


          • Gilbert Figueroa Jr. | January 8, 2021 at 8:25 pm |

            Wow! This Is Awesome And Outstanding. Two Super Tall New Empire Skyscrapers, A New Penn Station, And A New Madison Square Garden. This Is Absolutely Astonishing And Fantastic. A New World Trade Center, A New Hudson Yards, A New Billionaire’s Row, And Finally A New Midtown Skyline With The New Madison Square Garden As The Center Piece. God Bless America And New York City In Particular. The NY Knicks Will Rise To ChampionShip Standards Soon Enough Under The New Mastermind Headcoach. Wow!

          • ChampionShipSports888 | January 8, 2021 at 8:37 pm |

            Wow! Talk About Someone Being Negative. New York Definitely Will Never Need Your Kind. New York Will Always Rise And Those Who Can Will Always Stand Ready To Rise As Well.
            Let’s Go New York Knicks. The Time To Win Is Now! New York Needs A Four Consecutive ChampionShip Streak Twice. Show The World How New York Shines Golden. It Is Time!

        • That’s a stupid thing to say. Buggy Whips? It’s dial telephones that are in demand!

      • Also, Goldman Sachs is not about to leave. They said they are looking for new possible locations for their asset management division, which is nowhere near their entire NYC presence. It may or may not happen.

        • Goldman is taking the asset management division out of town, to Florida, and more to follow.
          Citi Bank is looking to move certain operations to Texas.
          It’s not going to end there; the city is broke so they’re finding new ways to tax these corporations to make money.
          Why would these companies want to do that?
          It’s over, these companies have seen that working remotely can work, it doesn’t matter where the employess are.

          • No. Remote working doesnt work as a new paradigm. Time is now showing us the pitfalls, like drinking on the job at home. Barry Diller (I think) has said you cannot run a global corporation from everybody’s homes. I totally agree.

    • A project like this is going to take many years to build out.

    • Current/recent nightime photos of Midtown and downtown prove otherwise: Lots of lighted windows in the office towers, which means people are working in them.
      And developers obviously have faith in the city, as well as data that tells them the city is NOT a ghost town, nor will remain one. Nobody will willingly invest big $$$$ in something they think – or know – will be a sure-loser. Yes, it may take a while before NYC resembles the full-strength business and cultural powerhouse it was at the beginning of 2020. But the city is far from an empty ghost town. And the office towers are far from dark.

      • Building lights don’t mean anything. Recent foot traffic estimates were at 20% of 2019 levels, and that was before the latest brain-dead shutdowns from Governor Whimsical Fiats. Another study has office occupancy levels at only 14%. Building permits are actually down quite a bit, despite some major projects. I agree that builders haven’t abandoned hope, but the current situation is indeed essentially a ghost town.

    • The pandemic is not going to last forever. Have you read anything about the pandemic of 1918…did the great cities of the world melt into nothing? Think, just a bit, this project would be well beyond the pandemic.

    • Thomas R Forsyth | January 9, 2021 at 9:15 am | Reply

      Lol you’re clearly not from here.

      • What followed the Pandemic of 1918? The depression. It took nearly 10 years to dig out of that, and it started with the Pandemic. The markets have 12 to 18 months of gains built in. After that who knows what is going to happen. This is a bad time to be pushing self-serving real estate projects that have no chance of moving forward if the Dolan’s don’t agree to sell their property.

        • The Crash of 1929 was 11 years after 1918… and the major skyscrapers of NYC and the economics of The New Deal kept people EMPLOYED during the actual Depression.

        • The Depression started at the end of 1929 – a decade AFTER 1918. What followed the 1918 Spanish Flu was the “Roaring Twenties”. NYC was on fire that decade, becoming massively prosperous. Until the imfamous stock market crash of October 1929.

        • Gilbert “GB” Figueroa Jr. | February 15, 2021 at 8:53 am | Reply

          The World Trade Center Was Composed Of The Twin Towers Before 9/11, But Now The World Trade Center Is Composed Of Four Massive Towers Surrounding The World Twin Tower Pools’ Memorial. One World Trade Center Is 1,776 Feet Tall Which Is Way Taller Than Before. WTC Towers Three, Four, And Seven Are Massive And So Will Tower Two In The Future And Tower Five Being The Shortest At 900 Feet Tall At 130 Liberty Park. That Is Only Downtown In The WTC. Central Park Tower Is 1,550 Feet Tall, And Tower Fifth In Fifth Avenue Will Be Taller. The Hudson Yards Development Are Massive Towers And All This Work Has Been Done After 9/11. New York City Never Backs Away From Development And Tenants Will Always Be Found. Have You Read About The Planned The Big Bend In Billionaires Row Below Central Park? Or The Space Tower In Earth’s Orbit That Will Travel Everyday From NYC To Brazil In An 8 Shape American Orbit? The Empire State Of New York Have Never Been Better With New Developments And It Will Always Be Taller And Better Than Years Before.

  2. I am 1000% into this.

    This is exactly what the city needs to bounce back!

  3. Office hotel and retail store give me a break. Bring some activity like housing, et all so you can see people after office workers go home if ever return to the city

  4. I love the idea, and what a way to get commuters to return back to the city.
    And that remake of the garden would be very well welcomed.
    I’m not sure that I like the empire state-building not being the tallest but…..the payoff might be worth it?

    • Salvatrix Mundi | January 8, 2021 at 9:04 pm | Reply

      Commercial landlords and lenders may be in trouble this year, but, by 2025 this whole thing will be forgotten about, and people will soon learn that working from home indefinitely is a fast track to burnout as you can no longer separate work from home and leisure time. Commercial will be back. Office space that is. Retail is screwed. It already was and Covid was like pouring gasoline on that dumpster fire. Which is why Herald Square is the perfect area to bulldoze a few blocks and drop MSG, unlike Old Penn Station.

      It was a terrible idea to demolish Penn Station and replace it with that monstrosity in the first place, so atoning at least a little bit for that major sin, and maybe this time they’ll properly rename it “The Garden” since it’ll be still not actually in Madison Square!

      • Gilbert Figueroa Jr. | January 21, 2021 at 3:33 pm | Reply

        The Empire State Building Is Not Longer The Tallest Tower In NYC And Hasn’t Been For A Long Time. It Will Indeed Be Great For Midtown And NYC Overall To Have Two New SuperTall Towers In Garden City Midtown And Bring The Empire State Feelings Back To NY. Definitely, It Would Be Even Better If The New York Knickerbockers Could Win At Least Two More ChampionShips Before Moving To The New Location. The New MSG Will Rock Midtown, Broadway, NYC, The USA, And Continue Its Legacy Of Being The World’s Greatest Arena. Two More ChampionShips Will Add Fire To The Legacy And Tom Thibodeau Is The Right Man For The Job.

        Long Live The New York Knicks!

  5. This would be amazing. It shows that vision encourages vision; the Gateway Project is inspiring people to think big (literally as well as figuratively). There would be a lot of winners here; the sports teams and their fans, the developers and their investors, but most importantly New Yorkers and everyone else who use Penn Station daily for commuting and travel. I agree with those who find it difficult to conceive of such a project in the middle of of a pandemic. And yet the Empire State Building was built in the middle of the Great Depression. Indeed, the whole project has the aura of the urban planning in the EARLY 20th century that made the New York we enjoy, fetishize . . .and take for granted. Moreover it shows that investors and business believe that New York is NOT over; in fact we are still going strong. This is building for our future. I hope it gets built.

  6. I prefer a new MSG over the useless and under utilized park next to Yankee Stadium, but I am down for this. Build baby build!

    • Lots of outer borough telocations have been daydreamed, but i actually think MSG needs to stay on Manhattan. This proposal is one possibility as is incorporated into a new Port Authority Bus Terminal redevelopment.

    • The parks and playgrounds surrounding Yankee Stadium are heavily utilized by locals. I think you mean the mostly empty parking garages. And take note a soccer stadium is being built on the garages south of Yankee Stadium.

      • No, I mean the parks, too many ballfields. Heritage Field is redundant, at least it should be transformed into a mixed use park that would draw more people to it with all sorts of events and activities.

  7. Love everything about this about this, but would prefer the twin towers be reduced in height to 985′ so ESB and its iconic spire still stand out in Midtown. I would also suggest that the prospect of this project moving forward will accelerate development of Tower Fifth, The Commodore and 350 Park Ave so they can be completed ahead of this to secure what office demand there is 3 years from now.

    • ESB is 20th century. We now reside well into the 21st. The taller, the better. I think that the idea of the ESB as being the only icon to exmpliufty NYC is anachronistic.

      • Especially when Hudson Yards has taller buildings, as does Downtown, and Midtown is going to have…. MANY… (it already does). The ESB will be relegated to a Chrysler-esque status if it hasn’t been already for all intents and purposes, but there is nothing wrong with that, the Chrysler is still beautiful!

      • Clearly I don’t advocate for some type of height restriction for all of Manhattan, just not 1 block due West of ESB. In fact, I’d love nothing more than to see a megatall in Midtown, somewhere around 50th and 5th AVE would be ideal in a perfect world.

        ESB isn’t a 20th century building either. The LED lights make it the heartbeat (which it literally is in February) of the city celebrating holidays, and even participating in Superbowl, World Series, NCAA… You name it.

        I have a clear view of ESB and none of this will take that away, but I still feel it needs a little breathing room, more than a block anyway.

      • Correct. Remember when Philadelphia lifted the height restriction of no building being taller than the 548-foot city hall with William Penn statue? Since the lift, 11 taller buildings have been erected. (The tallest now is Comcast, at 1,121-feet.) No reason why the ESB cannot be exceeded. I’d like to see these proposed buildings at 1,800 – 1,900 feet. Or taller.

        • Just curious, did you feel the same about the Commodore Building proposal? When that was posted, nearly every comment was against the development purely because it blocked the Chrysler building.

          I really love this proposal, but still feel a little respect for ESB is needed.

  8. Awesome! NYC will come roaring back! It always does

    • In case you didn’t notice, last time it took NYC three decades to “roar back” from its progressive delusions. And since we’re still well into our current downward spiral, not even close to the bottom, and since every single Mayoral candidate is proposing more of the same DeBlasio progressive stupidity, there is no reason whatsoever to think the City will be back in less than 20 years.

      • I agree about the incompetent leadership and the stupidity of the electorate. However, I think NYC will come back and quickly for several reasons. First, now that we have experienced a safe, prosperous and livable metro, people won’t allow it to slide back into full 1970. Second, in about 6 months, tourism is going to come roaring back to life like never before and people will flood back into NYC to dine, see a show and take in the parks and museums. Third, big tech (Facebook, Google, Apple, Amazon) have all signed contracts for millions of sqft of office space in Hudson Yards and Hudson Square, so this will bring upwards of 20,000 new employees into the city everyday to work, dine, get dry clean and so on.

        Fingers crossed!

        • Well I hope you’re right.

        • I used to work right next to Hudson Yards across from the post office and I haven’t been back since mid March 2019, neither have any of the thousands of employees in that same new million dollar building. A lot of layoffs took place. A lot of people left or moved out of state and can’t return.
          Your view is positive which is great, but NYC is about Broadway and concerts and food, and all of that is gone for the next ten years. It is too expensive to have shows for one quarter of the audience.
          Vaccines neill not build trust to sit next to strangers so closely. How can you enjoy a show hearing people cough? Not the same anymore.
          Maybe the generation after the next generation will be better.
          Streaming will be the new entertainment. The road to recovery for NYC will be a long one.

        • I agree with your optimism – as there are good reasons to be optimistic. Even more so as time goes by. Though I was VERY concerned about NYC’s future back in the summer, especially at the hands of the astonishing incompetence/ideologically-obsessed mayor and governor. But since then I’m seeing so many business and cultural people who appear committed to making NYC great once again.

  9. Wow a project that makes sense! Even the supertalls look good, Having been up to NYP for the debut of Moynihan Train Hall it really shows what can be done to transform the area into a first class part of Manhattan. A Penn Station that people actually want to go in. And buildings that compliment the ESB to the East. Well done!

  10. The Garden doesn’t need to move in order to facilitate a massive redevelopment of Penn Station. Just rip out the MSG Theater, which is sandwiched below the arena and directly above the station’s main concourse (hence the theater’s unusually low ceilings). This would allow a significant gutting and expansion of the concourse (with natural light finally poring in) and a grand new entrance along 8th Ave.

  11. It would be such a criminally missed opportunity to not include any sort of housing in this utterly massive complex, but if this is what it looks like, all for it. Continues to address the problems of the repugnantly cramped Penn Station that Moynihan Hall started to solve, provides more office space, more public space, builds underutilized land, and creates two great towers for the skyline

    Just add some housing, and all for it.

    • there is a short residential, maybe you missed it? But overall designing residential neighborhoods is beyond any private undertaking because you also need to put in schools, children’s playgrounds, various walk-ins. This is why that specific area is doomed to be office space or manufacturing

    • Plenty of residential going up… You just take the ferry across the Hudson!

  12. Cheesemaster200 | January 8, 2021 at 10:33 am | Reply

    Pie in the sky. How much is all this going to cost? I am assuming the city does not own the entire midtown block to demolish and put up yet another monstrosity arena in west midtown.

    Furthermore, I always thought of Chakrabarti’s Penn Station plan as one of the worst redevelopment options. If they are going to tear down MSG (which this plan effectively entails), then why bother keeping its awkward circular shape? I would much rather them build something that harkens to the original station and the post office across 8th avenue.

    The main problem with any MSG redevelopment is that Penn needs to be an active train station during construction. The new Moynihan Train hall somewhat alleviates this problem, but Jersey Transit is still active on the other side of the street. Chakrabarti’s concept entails all the logistical challenges of a complete redevelopment, but hamstrings itself by keeping the existing MSG footprint which is underutilizing the real estate.

    I always thought a more realistic solution would be to block out the current MSG footprint from 8th avenue to Penn Plaza, turn the spaces created by the four new corners into glass entrance skylights, and provide nostalgic granite facades/columns for the east, west, and north faces. On the interior, simply remove the multiple levels for LIRR/NJT/Amtrak and turn it into a single concourse with openings to the tracks below. This can be done within the existing operations of the station and for a lot less money.

  13. Sooo…
    will Madison SQUARE Garden once again revert to a building geometry that fits it name?
    Or will the circle be unbroken, with a circular arena within a square building?
    Inquiring and bored minds want to know!
    My understanding is that the original Madison Square Garden, located in the 50’s on the West Side, was square, hence the name Madison Square Garden.
    But was the interior square as well?
    And will there be a smaller venue space included, as I believe the current Garden offers?
    Questions, questions, questions…
    P.s. With all this $$$ being spent on out-of-city commuters who use and depend upon our city’s infrastructure and services,its time to reinstate out-of-city commuter taxes to help rebuild our city.

  14. Truly love this, audacity and vision is that is needed

    • Cheesemaster200 | January 8, 2021 at 2:42 pm | Reply

      No, money is needed unless Chakrabarti intends to finance this himself.

      Anyone can come up with innovative ways to spend tens of billions of dollars. It’s finding the tens of billions of dollars which is always the issue.

  15. I like the design of the supertalls and giving Penn Station an overhaul would be great, but I really don’t want the ESB eclipsed. I would prefer a circular area surrounding it that limits the height of other buildings. The ESB is an iconic design, puts on a killer light show, and is the very image of midtown Manhattan I wish the project be could moved another twenty blocks out.

  16. Qwanshwan Jones | January 8, 2021 at 11:34 am | Reply

    This is pretty cool, but the Hotel Pennsylvania demo will draw out the folks wanting landmark status. Also, I do not wanna be a Karen here but aren’t the train tubes under the Hudson about to collapse at any moment? Maybe that outta be a focus for a sec?

  17. i have a hunch with this new administration; this will be paid for by Texas when NY gets bailed out in the next stimulus.

  18. Woah…

  19. Yes to all of this, but damn, looks like yet another missed opportunity for NY’s first megatall. Oh well.

  20. Hate it! MSG should be renovated or moved further west. Why destroy a busy shopping area?

    • It would still be a busy shopping area. Plus isnt the old Gimbels/Manhattan Mall like 25% of its original retail sq ft??

  21. A ray of hope for nyc. Brilliant and let’s get it done. Of course the project will unDergo some tweaks. But let’s not do what we too often with new major initiatives like this and get bogged down with a bunch of negativity. We need an injection of life, hope for the revitalization in the greatest city in the world and this project represents the foundation from which to move forward. It is the vaccine we need to get out of this economic malaise and create jobs, tax revenue and hope for the future

    Louis coletti

  22. When do we start. Finally a ray of hope and optimism. Of course the scope of the project will change. But let’s not talk about reasons it should not move forward. Let’s focus on why it should. It’s visionary, will create jobs and tax revenue and restore confidence in why people should remain committed to living and working in nyc.

  23. As long as there’s an iron clad, bulletproof agreement with the developer(s) 100% guaranteeing these supertalls, which will tower over NYC’s majestic, beloved & iconic Empire State Building will be every bit as beautiful & spectacular as the ESB, then this might be worthwhile.

    However, if these prospective buildings lack definitive contracts 100% guaranteeing the developer(s) cannot “bait & switch” us with (false) promises of exceptionally beautiful buildings in their renderings & marketing materials that then end up being cheapened/dumbed down …er “value engineered” (?) …once all approvals are received & construction begins, then absolutely, positively *NO FREAKIN’ WAY* should these buildings be allowed to mar our city’s skyline like several of the butt ugly monstrosities seen in Hudson Yards do.

    Fool us once – shame on you.

    Fool us twice – *shame on US*.

    So, let’s be clear: these proposed supertalls better be drop dead gorgeous stunners that properly salute & honor our city’s absolute best architecture that can also take their place along with the most extraordinary supertalls seen in many cities around the world – or **NFW** – don’t build them at all.

    Let’s not allow ourselves to be fooled again.

    Enough is enough with the lifeless, dreary, boring, depressing, insipid, imposing & overly massed, hulking beasts like the vast majority of vomit inducing fuglies seen to date in Hudson Yards.

  24. OH MY GOSH
    This project is absolutely insane, and I don’t even know where to start. But, I do have to say that this looks like a GREAT project.
    At first, I thought that this would be a disaster, considering the twin supertalls (which I’ll get to in a moment), but looking at all the plans and renderings, I think this could actually be pretty cool.
    However, I have a little problem with the twin skyscrapers, the ultimate focal point of the masterplan…and that is that is that I don’t really like them. Personally, I think they’re WAY too tall, and I really just don’t care for the overall design. They remind me of Landmark 81, a skyscraper in Vietnam. Of course, that’s not a bad thing. But, I think they just don’t look “New York” to me, and they don’t really fit in the skyline. But that’s just my opinion.
    So overall, Garden City has some great potential to become something really amazing.

  25. One of those supertalls should be entirely resi with 50% affordable across the site. We don’t need all that new office!

  26. The proposal doesn’t include any bike-friendly amenities, like indoor parking.

  27. so0ooo we’ll just ignore the fact that the magnificent original Penn Station was destroyed for that MSG monstrosity and we’ll decimate another two blocks worth of old buildings (including the Hotel Pennsylvania) for another modern eye sore?

    • Nothing on those blocks are impressive except for their scale. The Manhattan Mall old Gimbels has been butchered past the point of no return imo and the rest of the block is crap. Hotel Penn is worth a debate but ultimately it’s extremely banal nondescript un-unique era example that again is only impressive do to its scale. Add in the fact it will probably cost a billion dollars to rehabilitate properly, maybe just maybe it’s time to turn a page towards the future.

    • GC, you have a good point. Most of the 34th Street block should be redeveloped, but there are worthy buildings on 33rd and 32nd.

  28. ReThinkNYC supports a rebuild of the original Penn Station modernized for current technology and capacity needs(the former carriage/taxiways on 31st and 33rd Street would be repurposed as open air arcades with pedestrian ramps and bike parking). Platforms would be widened after station converted to a 100% through running station as part of a larger unification of regional transit. Think St. Pancras–the creative use of old and new. Our plan embraces the 34th and Broadway site as one of 3 possible MSG locations but do not advocate tearing down the Pennsylvania Hotel or Macy’s. Adaptive reuse wherever possible should be the norm. Please check our emerging website at
    Historic buildings are rebuilt in Europe all the time and this is one that would be especially ripe to rebuild…this architecture works for train stations(e.g. Grand Central, Union Stations in DC and Denver, St. Pancras in London). Without more, why do we need another Hudson Yards East of the original?
    There are less dramatic ways to improve and invest in the neighborhood, maintain it’s character and continue a positive and upward trajectory for the city and region.

  29. This is really exciting! I love this plan for PENN & MSG. The reimagined PENN with its ‘glass drum’ of the re-purposed MSG would be stunning. Relocating MSG to the 9th Ave portion of the Farely building may have been a missed opportunity, but this new plan would be a win for NYC as well with even great transportation access to MSG.

  30. Actually this Master plan demolishes the old “Gimbels” department store and the Art-Deco Saks 5th Avenue bridge… Granted Gimbels doesn’t exist and the building no longer looks like it did in say “Miracle on 34th Street” but they should save that bridge and re-use it somewhere else.

  31. It looks like this plan basically eliminates an entire block of 33rd st, and drops a 1960s-style superblock in the middle of a currently-busy section of midtown. Hard to imagine anything worse for street life in the surrounding area.

  32. It is too tall and too close to the Empire State Building and hence will forever destroy our last iconic look of the Manhattan skyline. Build it – but elsewhere!

  33. No thanks to keeping the drum shell of MSG. Wreck it. All of it. Start the he’ll over. There is nothing about MSG that needs to be honored or memorialized.

  34. When will my prior posts be moderated and/or posted? I didn’t see them as so controversial. I have been at this issue since 2016–this is a first?

  35. This proposal has some great aspects. It is feasible to do it in stages so there is no interruption either for MSG or for Penn. using that underdeveloped block brings new life to Herald Square, which was once a major commercial focus of Manhattan but has now languished like a backwater since Gimbel’s closed a half century ago. I also like retaining the cylinder of the old MSG. Important buildings should not just disappear, but instead leave their physical mark on the city, like a physical history that we learn to live with and repurpose. That’s what makes a multilayered metropolis. I hope that it gets built with the highest quality design. It would be an important addition to our city.

  36. Yes Yes Yes this is the embodiment of PROGRESS, a concept that is lost to most of NYC. There is no need to preserve Penn Station. Rebuild it well and move MSG to a suitable location!

  37. Build it, Build it all, and Build it Tall.

    The Empire State Building is 90 years old. Imagine telling a 20 year old they need to dumb themselves down so a 90 year old can still compete. Sheer lunacy.

    Build it.

  38. This doesn’t make any sense. I used to have an office on 33rd Street between 6th and 7th. There are thousands of businesses in that area which would be upended. They should use the entire Post Office for Penn Station. Move the Post Office.

  39. Super-talls are narcissistic phallic symbols of what’s wrong with our City. How tiresome and tragic.

  40. woow I love how New York City always thinks of an excellent future plan and with that vision of once again having a great first level station penn and creating a new Madison Square Garden with two huge towers it seems fantastic to me and for the pessimists that They say that building more towers because they are empty I remind them of New York always after a crisis is when it reinvents itself and comes out victorious Long live NYC

  41. What incredibly tacky, grandiose nonsense, so typical of the Subcon mentality. It looks like Superman’s Ice Fortress, or whatever that’s called, and has the same comic book sensibility. The architect who designed this really, REALLY hates regular people. Which is perfect for our current ruling class and the incoming administration.

  42. Looks at least 1500 feet. Maybe even 1600 to 1700. I sure hope so!

  43. I would like to know if I do qualify for one of these unit apartment I am 61 years old man on disability I do have a voucher for 1600 for a one-bedroom apartment unit and I am also on Social Security I paid 30% out of my income towards the rent daddy could be possible that you accept a senior citizen like me that do have about you if it’s possible can someone get in touch with me at 929-247-0192

  44. New York City these dasy reminds me of Detroit. Once the richest city on earth. Now empty.
    Beautiful buildings can be had for $1 if you pay the taxes.
    Socialism is now rampant in this once thriving city, destroyed by Cuomo and Dumblasio.
    While its tax base is leaving to freer pastures.
    Sad. Sad.

  45. It looks ugly and creepy like the Rangers.

  46. If New York City is Dead. Then tell me what city isn’t.

  47. Arena looks too generic. MSG 4 is an iconic building. If they build MSG 5. It has to be something superior exceeding all new arenas. But need better city hall personnel. NYC is a disgrace right now. Currently existing arena is very nice and unique with sky bridges. The last renovation from 2011-2013 was a vast improvement.

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